Women Like Me Stories & Business

Invisible Pain Explained: Movement, Nervous System Regulation & Real Recovery | Dasha Maslennikova

• Julie Fairhurst • Episode 185

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Pain that no one can see can still define every hour of your day.

In this episode, we sit down with Dasha Maslennikova, a kinesiologist who spent 13 years navigating her own post-accident chronic pain. Together, we unpack how movement, mindset, and nervous system regulation can turn a stuck cycle into real, sustainable progress.

Rather than chasing quick fixes or waiting for a perfect test result, Dasha explains why active therapy builds resilience, how safety and trust quiet fear in the body, and what shifts when clinicians speak to human experience, not just charts and scans. We explore the bridge her studios create between physiotherapy and personal training, and why graded, evidence-based movement helps the nervous system update its threat response.

We talk candidly about invisible pain and the isolation it brings, the language gaps that leave patients feeling dismissed, and the limits of MRIs and lab work for something as subjective and real as pain. In the fibromyalgia segment, Dasha breaks down nervous system sensitivity and altered signaling without overpromising, instead pointing to practical levers such as pacing, strength training, emotional support, and consistency.

For older adults and caregivers, the fall-prevention conversation is a must-hear. Dasha explains why balance training alone isn’t enough, and how fast-twitch power and reaction time are essential skills for recovering from a trip or stumble, yet are rarely trained as we age.

We also explore how trauma and adverse events can prime the body for chronic pain, and why referrals to counseling or trauma-informed care can accelerate physical recovery. The throughline is hopeful and grounded: movement is medicine, change is possible, and the body often knows how to heal when given the right environment.

If you’re feeling stuck, unheard, or unsure where to start, this conversation offers clear steps and a new lens on what your body might be asking for. Listen, share it with someone who needs encouragement, and subscribe for more conversations that blend science, compassion, and real-world tools.


LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dasha-maslennikova-2547557b/

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Who Is Julie Fairhurst?

Speaker • Author • Business Strategist • Founder of Women Like Me

Julie Fairhurst is a force of nature disguised as a woman with a pen and a business brain built for impact. As the founder of the Women Like Me Book Program, she has opened the door for women around the world to share their truth, heal their past, and rise into their power. Since 2019, she has published more than 30 books and over 350 true-life stories — without charging a single writer a dime! Why? Because women’s stories deserve daylight, not gatekeeping.

With 34 years in sales, marketing, and successful business leadership, Julie knows how to turn storytelling into influence and influence into income.

Her mission is clear and unapologetic: break generational trauma one story at a time and help women elevate both emotionally and financially. She doesn’t just publish books, she builds brands, confidence, and possibility, giving women the tools to rewrite their futures, grow their businesses, and lift their families with them.


Julie's Website




SPEAKER_01:

Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of Women Like Me Stories in Business. I'm your host, Julie Feherska, a really interesting lady here with us today, and she's got an interesting story to tell today. So let me introduce you to her and then we'll get on with our conversation first. Too often it's treated as something to silence, overwry, or simply go through without ever asking us what the body is trying to communicate. My guest today is Data, NASA Lakova. I hope I got that right. Data's work is at the intersection of movement, trauma awareness, mindset, and nervous system regulation test. Data's work is deeply first of all after experiencing chronic pain following car accidental tests. We understand pain is not just clinical test. Her approach challenges the idea that pain management is not about quick fixes. In this conversation, we talk about pain, trauma, movement, and the quiet wisdom of the body and what changes when we stop fighting our pain and start listening to it. So thank you so much for being here, Tasha. Dasha, I appreciate it. You want to tell everybody a little bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_00:

Totally. Thank you so much for that warm introduction, Julie. Um, hello, everybody. My name is Dasha. Uh, like Julie mentioned, I'm a kinesiologist and I run a business. Um, I have an interesting kind of story as I was 18 uh when I was in a car accident, and then I had a 13-year chronic pain journey, and that led me uh through different practitioners and to try to, you know, recover. I was very young, fit, and healthy. I was a synchronized swimmer uh growing up. Um, and at the time of the car accident, I was a lifeguard, I was cycling a lot, so I was quite fit and active. And um, yeah, I was completely, you know, flat out, uh, couldn't move for at least a week. And then that started the chronic pain journey after this car accident, and um kept getting the signal or kept getting the messaging from my treatment providers like you're fine, nothing's wrong with you, you're fine. You like, but I kept having pain. Uh, so that uh, you know, I kept searching for answers because I was like, well, obviously I'm not fine, my body still hurts.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh and yeah, that's led me down the path where I am now uh in my clinical practice. So in some ways it was a traumatic thing that was really hard and challenging, but at the same time uh led me to be who I am today and help people the way I do, which is really beautiful.

SPEAKER_01:

Wonderful. And so you are in Vancouver, Canada. Yep, so you and and so you have a are they called clinics? What would your what would your uh clinics or studios?

SPEAKER_00:

Studios. Yes. So we currently have two studios and we're opening a third in April. So we are expanding, which is very, very exciting. Yes. Yeah, and it's congratulations for some of you that are not familiar with kinesiology. I would say the best way to describe what we do is where the bridge between physiotherapy and personal training. So we kind of meet that in the middle. So our studios or clinics have everything you would find in a physiotherapist gym, you know, all the little balls and bands and kind of the little exercise tools, but also most things that you would find in a personal training studio. So we have the heavy weights, the spot rack, the cable pull machines, and so we kind of bridge those pieces together. Um, yeah.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So okay, let me ask you, because you just sparked something in me. I don't really know the difference between physiotherapy and what you do. Is there a difference?

SPEAKER_00:

There is, yeah. So kinesiology is entirely movement-based, I would say. And so we are considered active therapy, whereas many physiology will practice in a passive therapy way. So you're coming in, you're laying down on the table, they're doing things to you. Maybe they're doing needling, uh, mobilization, those kinds of things. Yeah. Um, and maybe there is an active therapy piece to physiotherapy, but not everybody, and it's and it varies practitioner to practitioner, whereas kinesiology is more exercise-based, and oftentimes it's a stepping stone, right? We go to physiotherapy first, and then we kind of graduate to kinesiology to kind of build that strength and function again.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, perfect. Well, I understand now. I've got it.

unknown:

Great.

SPEAKER_01:

I'd like to know because you you mentioned, of course, your car accident. So, how did that experience change the way you understood your body?

unknown:

Wow.

SPEAKER_00:

Or did it? That's a big, yeah, that's a big uh question. I think the biggest thing I took away from that whole, I'm gonna say 13-year experience, right? Because the car accident was the the start of the journey. Uh, what I really learned is that pain is not causative in the body and is not always physical. So oftentimes we have something painful happens and we point to a physical issue, right? We say, Oh, I've got, you know, I've got a paper cut. There was a cut on my skin, therefore it hurts, right? But sometimes pain can actually be deeper than that, right? It could be emotionally based, uh, it could be mentally based. Uh, sometimes I I talk about the idea with my clients of like the fear of pain is a pain itself, right? But the fear of pain is a psychological pain, right? Right, but we don't feel pain in our brain, right? We feel that the experience of pain is in our body, right? And so that fear of pain is a physically felt experience, but it doesn't have a physical cause. If that makes sense, it is. Yeah, and so it does make sense. It's quite a once you get into the weeds of this, it's quite complicated, right? Because with my car accident, there was a physical cause, right? I was barked around in a car and my body had injuries. And at the same time, I was so incredibly scared of cars. Um, there was a lack of control, there was a ton of grief, a sense of loss. And so I had this whole kind of mental experience.

SPEAKER_02:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

And unfortunately, back in the day, that wasn't addressed. Um, you know, counseling and mental health was not as common. And so I was kind of just left on my own in that aspect. So my physical symptoms were treated, but my mental symptoms weren't. Um, and unfortunately, that left me kind of stuck in a bit of a fear, loss, grief spiral. Um, and I was just stuck for many, many years.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Wow. What do you think the hardest part is for um when you're living with pain, uh, that maybe most people can't see?

SPEAKER_00:

The hardest part, I mean, you named it. The hardest part is that people can't see it, right? So many of my clients will talk about how, you know, they're young. They're young people, so they look able-bodied, and people just assume, like, oh, you're you're in your 30s, you're in your 20s, like you can stand on a bus or you can do all these things. Uh, and so in some ways, their pain is invisible. And because of that, they end up feeling very like misunderstood, or there's a lack of connection to their experience.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that makes that make that definitely makes a lot of sense, and and sad, really, isn't it? Because you're right, it's not like if they have a broken arm, you can see it. Right? Or you know, something that's very easy to recognize.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, totally. And I mean, oftentimes the start of an injury, there'll be a cast or crutches or something that's more visible.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

And oftentimes, as we go through the process, in some ways it's great because you're getting better, right? You're like, okay, now I don't need my crutches anymore. I don't need the cast. But then the pain becomes more and more invisible. And so there's this almost shame that some people experience where they're like, well, I can't go out to dinner with my friends. I can only sit for half an hour, and then I need to stand up and move around.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

But then I need to have the confidence to explain that, right? And then it's like, well, how good is your connection with the people that you're going to meet?

SPEAKER_02:

Right. Right.

SPEAKER_00:

And so there may be this kind of shame that you're like, oh, I don't want to share that aspect. So I'll just not go. So then folks become really isolated. And we know like humans need human connection, right? So then if you're even more isolated or lonely in your experience, you don't do that going out, seeing people, it almost kind of reinforces that pain cycle.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And then you start, yeah, that cycle, right. That you start going through. You you um you talk about you how do you define good treatment rather than managing it? Like there is a difference, or is there?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's that's a really good question. And this is something that I often think about in terms of, you know, doctors, physiotherapists, um, even surgeons, uh, kinesiologists, whoever you go to, any other like non-registered health professionals. I mean, I think the first thing to remember is that there's a human in front of you, and you're a human, right? So the very foundation of good treatment is the human connection. And so often we as treatment providers, you know, I went through school to become a kinesiologist. We were not taught like how to connect with another human, how to make another human feel heard, how to address that emotional component. And so that foundation of good treatment oftentimes is missing, right? Um, where sometimes people feel um like their treatment providers aren't hearing them, or so often my clients will tell me, Oh, my doctor told me everything was fine. Right. And so it's like that doctor is having a hard time connecting with the experience of their patient, where their patient is coming to them and saying, I still have pain. And the doctor is saying, Well, I did the test, and the test shows nothing, right? Right. And so what the patient is hearing, oh, you are like, you're not hearing me, like everything is fine, right? But they're like, but it's not fine because I still have pain. Right, right. And so there's that language connection ability to communicate that's missing. Whereas if the doctor was able to communicate better, they would say, the test result shows us nothing, and I still hear that you're having pain, you know, here are our other options. Or this could be because X, Y, Z, you know, we can't see pain on MRIs, or muscle tension can cause pain, and that's not, you know, identified in this test. There are limitations to what I can test.

SPEAKER_01:

Is there any way to hook somebody up to know that they really are in pain, to feel it? Like, is there any way? Uh, I wouldn't say that. I'm curious.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, there's not really great uh methods. Uh, like I said, we don't see pain on MRIs, we don't see pain on blood tests. Uh, maybe if you were to do like brain scans, yeah, you could see that. Um maybe like heart rate or heart rate variability, like how are the how's our nervous system doing?

SPEAKER_02:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

But it's interesting for me, like I have uh a tracker, so I look at my heart rate variability on a daily basis, and it doesn't really change that much when I have pain or not, you know. So there's not uh like maybe my pain is not significant at this point in order to show that change. Yeah, so yeah, there's not really good like objective measurement for pain. Yeah, it's a subjective experience.

SPEAKER_01:

What about fibromyalgia? Like what happens with people because again, there's nothing, you're not seeing anything. But yeah, there like I have a sister who has uh fibromyalgia, and sometimes she's like in a lot of pain. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So, so yeah, that's a great question. I am gonna preempt and say that I'm not an expert on fibromyalgia currently. Like I haven't read the recent research. Right. I know that there's been a little bit more findings. I I can't tell you exactly what they are. So if folks are really curious about that, um, I would encourage them to go find someone who is.

SPEAKER_01:

So do you get people coming into you into you to help with fibromyalgia?

SPEAKER_00:

What I will say is fibromyalgia has been a diagnosis of elimination. So basically what they'll do is they'll say, Okay, you don't have broken bones, you don't have, let's say, torn ligaments, okay, you don't have a bulgic disc, you don't have a nerve condition. So they'll basically rule out you don't have cancer, you don't, they'll rule out all this stuff, and then eventually they'll say, Okay, well, we have nothing else to test. So therefore, it must be fibromyalgia. So it became this kind of like umbrella term for pain that we cannot um verify with anything, like there's no other cause to this pain, right? So when conditions are like that, there may be actually a few different things lumped into the same bucket that are actually different, if you know what I mean. Like someone's fibromyalgia may look different than someone else's fibromyalgia.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, but what I can say about it is that it is a nervous system condition where the pain signals in the body have maybe become mixed up, and what may be quote unquote normal signaling has become painful.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

If that makes sense. It does, it does. And so that's a really common chronic pain presentation. So any chronic pain that's happening, right? There is this kind of confusion of signaling, uh, and oftentimes there's an emotional psychological component, even like fear of pain, right? Fear of pain, and then that gets people stuck in this pain cycle, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, it does. Yeah. Wow. Well, thank you for trying to answer that one for me. I know that's a that's a tough one. So, what do you understand about pain, especially when trauma is involved?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's I mean, that's a huge can of worms, pain and trauma. That's that's a huge topic. Um, there's many, many people who are, I would say, men very qualified to talk about this, but I'll do my best. Um so trauma, I would classify that as an adverse event. Um and what I know, I'm I'm actually in a therapy program right now, uh, learning, doing a postgrad certificate, but we talk about adverse childhood events. And so when people have adverse childhood events, quote unquote trauma, they become more susceptible to having chronic pain and pain in their adult years. Right. So, in some ways, there's changes in the brain and body that uh whether we like keep that pain or learn that pain, and then we are more likely to express it, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's like I was just as you were talking, I thought it's like a little kid who doesn't want to go to school, but really there's nothing wrong with them, but they have a stomachache. Yeah. Yeah, but it's because they are being bullied or something is going on, but they they can't verbalize it, but they internalize it. Totally. And so they end up without stomach ache.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and that's kind of the same idea as we were talking about at the beginning, right? Where pain can be, you know, psychological pain or the bullying pain or the social pain shows up as a physical pain in our bodies. And then it's hard to where you're like, Oh, do we need to take you to the doctor? Like, did you and oftentimes, right, when we have stomach pain, people are like, Oh, did you eat something bad? Did you have an allergy? Right. So oftentimes in our society we look for a physical cause, yeah. Whereas oftentimes it's something totally different, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Right, yes, exactly. Yeah. What about mindset? So, how does mindset influence help people recover?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's a great question. Um I think it's huge. I in some ways, I think it's like, you know, I I practice on this idea of like mind and body and the connection between them. So even though when you come to see me, we're gonna be doing things for your body, yeah, but the mind is the other half of it. So as an example, the trust between myself and my client, right? How much do they trust what we're doing and how much do they trust what we are doing is safe for them, right? Because if they feel safe and they're like, oh, I know movement is good for me, then suddenly uh whatever we do feels better, it feels therapeutic, it feels good for them, right? Yeah, so again, that kind of like foundational safety is really important, and that's part of that connection, right? The connection between practitioner and uh client, as well as um hope. Yeah do they have hope that they can get better? Do they have uh a goal that they think that they can achieve, right? Or are they hopeless and they think they're gonna be stuck like this forever? Right? Like those pieces are so crucial.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow. So how do you how do you help someone? So if I come in to see you because I'm was in a car accident or fell down or something happened and I am in pain, but I think I think I've been like this for years. I can't imagine that you're gonna be able to help me.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, uh, I see that all the time.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, you do?

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, do many of my folks come and they're like, you know, I've been through this journey for five years, seven years, eight years, three years, and they feel very stuck. So part of it is my personal experience and my experience as a clinician where I say, I've seen this before, and I truly believe in the body's ability to heal, right? So, given the right environment, your body always wants to get better, always wants to heal. And in some ways, we don't actually need to tell it how to do that, right? Like if you get a cut on your skin, it's not like you have to tell your skin how to go back to being better again, right? It just does it. Yes, what you do need to do is make sure the wound is clean, you know, get adequate sleep, get adequate nutrition, and voila, you know, your skin goes back to normal. Um, so that trust in life and the body's desire to heal is huge. Uh, so I think that helps me be able to hope for my clients in some ways. Yes. Uh, and then knowing that the things that we're doing with exercise are evidence-based. So uh there's lots of evidence to show that people get better, they recover, they become stronger, their pain becomes less as they do these exercises and movement practices. Uh, and so um, yeah, there's just that evidence piece as well that makes me trust in what I do. And so I I hope that kind of gives the client some hope. Yes. If that makes sense. For sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. What about seniors? Seniors that are just starting to feel aches and pains for no apparent reason. Um, do you work with many seniors?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's probably like half of our population that we work with. Oh, okay. Um, my oldest client right now is 84. Oh my goodness, wow. And uh he's so funny, he hates exercise, but he he sees the benefit. You know, he's like, oh, I can walk down the stairs easier, my balance is easier, I can do all these different things better. And so he knows it's working. And so he's bought in at this point, but uh I can see him like looking at the clock to be like, when is this over?

SPEAKER_01:

At one point will you stop torturing me? Yeah. But yeah, it's it's um, it's scary because I I mean, I've had clients. I was in real estate for a long time. And I know I had a senior gentleman, I was selling his home, and and uh I sold him into the home, and then he called me to sell it. And when I went there, he was not, it was like he was black and blue everywhere, and he just dropped over the curb going to, you know, he lost his balance and he and he was fearful, and he he was selling his place and going into retirement community. Yeah, you know, and that that and yeah, the so exercise can help with balance.

SPEAKER_00:

Huge, yes, very much so. So most of what we're doing with our senior clients is fall prevention because that's a really big uh longevity factor. So how long you live, uh, but also how functional you are. So many people, uh 65 plus, if you have a fall, oftentimes you lose your mobility to like let's say if you we had a walker before, you may end up in a wheelchair, or if you were walking normally, you may end up with a walking aid. So falls are huge in terms of function, quality of life, uh, and uh how long people live. And for falls, there's kind of two aspects that we look at. Uh, we look at the uh balance piece, so how balanced and agile you are on your feet, but also how strong and quick can you move your legs. Because one part of it is being able to stay balanced, yes, but the other part of it is if you lose balance or trip, is how quick can you get your leg out in front so you don't fall.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

And so both those factors can be trained. You can train your balance so that your muscles are more coordinated and you're just more sturdy, uh, and then you can train your leg strength and your leg muscles so that they're faster. And one of the biggest, so I not to go too deep into this, but in terms of muscle physiology, yeah, um, we have slow twitch muscles and fast twitch muscles. Okay, and one of the best ways for people to think about this is turkey meat. You have your dark meat and your white meat. Right, right. Okay. Your dark meat is your slow twitch muscles, which is your cardio muscle, and then your white meat is your fast twitch muscle, which is your power muscle. Most of us as we age, we do slow twitch activities, walking, cycling, cardio in general. Most of us as we age, we stop doing fast twitch activities like jumping, agility, those kinds of things.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

And so we bring people back into power training progressively, slowly, safely, uh, but we work on being quick.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And so the quicker you are with your legs, the more likely you are to get your leg out when you fall or stumble.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Wow, interesting. And that's just all training, right? Like there's um there's no magic there. Yeah. It's just doing it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So when somebody comes in, what kind of so how do you know what kind of treatment to put them on?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, good, great question. Uh, some of it is to do with their goals. So what are they coming to see us for? Uh, you know, do they want to return to tennis? Do they want to live a long and healthy life? Um, some of it is their age, right? How old are they? Um, what injuries they have. So that the goals really structure our treatment. And then the other part of it is our objective assessment. So we take them through a whole gamut of movements. We look at their range of motion, their strength, how well they coordinate uh different kinds of movements. And then based on that, we pick out okay, well, you're not good at this thing, you're not good at this thing, this muscle is weak. So then we put all that together to make more of an individualized treatment plan.

unknown:

Ah.

SPEAKER_01:

And so usually how long are those? So when someone comes in, is there sort of a set time? Are people in there for hours and hours, or they're sort of in and out? How does it work?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, usually it's about an hour session. Uh, but for some of our more deconditioned folks, sometimes it's 30 minutes. So it really just depends on how much you can tolerate. Like if you've never exercised before, or if you have, let's say, really significant pain, you may not be able to tolerate an hour. So we may start with 30 minutes. And uh yeah, and then in terms of how long the plan is, is also dependent on the injuries and the person and where they're at. How low of a baseline are we starting at, and how high are we trying to build them up? Yeah. Uh, some of my clients have been seeing for years. Uh, and some people come for 12 sessions and then they move on. So it really is it's not cookie cutter.

SPEAKER_01:

No, no, no. Well, none of us are. So yeah, we're all done. Yeah, exactly. Wow, well, so interesting. I I actually had no idea the difference. Um, and uh, I appreciate you being able to share that. And I'm also uh I also really like how you know you're paying attention to the mindset of the person as well. Yeah, yeah, there's a there's a big a big part there that needs to be because we you know the the brain, you know, it's it's a muscle. Yeah, it's it's huge.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, it's a huge part of us, right? Yes. And oftentimes we will refer to counseling if we feel like there needs to be more help. Yes. Um sometimes that's a hard sell for many people, they don't want to go, they're like, and it's like, yeah, no, there isn't necessarily anything wrong with you. It's just more that if these things you had different perspective on, it may just be easier. Like your life may just flow easier and your recovery will flow faster as well.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, yes, yeah, absolutely. I remember years ago uh a friend of mine, her mother had to have open heart surgery and she was an older lady. And um, and I remember my friend was in tears because her mom was so far behind the other patients in the in the hospital who had all had they were already up and moving and walking, and they couldn't get her out of bed. And it and it was just uh it was mindset. Yeah, it was just her mindset. She just thought this is the end. Where other people thought this is the new beginning. This is a new beginning, yeah. Yeah, I'm gonna be healthy now, I'm gonna be better. And she saw it a lot differently. And it took her, and her recovery was so much longer for it. You know, our mindsets are just so important for for everything but for healing. Yeah, wow. Well, what would you like to say, Dasha? In sort of we're we're ending our time together. What would you like to say to anyone who's listening? Oh, before that, I just want to mention that we're gonna have uh Dasha's information. So, how you can reach out to her, um, uh, how you can find her. She'll have some links in the show notes for you guys, so you'll be able to do that. Um, and uh, and you know, I'd go see her. Absolutely. Thank you, Julie. You're so kind. You want somebody who's kind and gentle, and you certainly are, uh, but you're also professional and you know what you're doing. So, what would you like to say to the people who are out there, maybe living in pain and don't think that there's any help, and the doctor doesn't know what's wrong with me, and I don't know what to do. I I just can't take it anymore. What what what do you what would you like to say to them? They need encouragement.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I would love to say to them that uh, you know, movement is medicine, first of all, and that there is help out there, you know, not not only me in my clinic, but there's also people just like me that understand these things, um and to to go find support, uh, because the body is amazing and it does heal, and it's possible to get better. Uh it's it just is. Uh, and so oftentimes we get stuck, you know, we get stuck in like this is me, this is how I am now. Yes. And yeah, it's just it's not true. It's possible to change.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. So true. Fabulous, fabulous statement for ending our time together. Well, I appreciate you coming on the show so much and sharing your wisdom uh and your expertise with all of us and helping us to understand more about what it is that you do uh and how you can help us and who you help. Because if we don't know, you know, now anybody listening knows that's what you do, and if they need you, they can search your road and get help. And I think that's so important because uh, you know, we all need knowledge and and we're not experts in everything. So it's always so good to hear it from the people that do it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, definitely. Thank you for that, Julie. You're welcome. This opportunity. Oh, you're welcome.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, everybody, that's it. So we are going to sign off. And uh I hope you've enjoyed. And don't forget to go into the show notes, you'll find all of the information where you can reach out to her. And we'll see you next time. So take care, everybody. Bye bye.