Women Like Me Stories & Business

High-Stress Career to Creative Alignment | Amy Bernstein on Writing, Self-Doubt & Sustainable Pivots

• Julie Fairhurst • Episode 183

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What happens when the life you’ve built looks successful, but quietly starves your spirit?

In this episode, author and book coach Amy Bernstein shares her journey from a high-paying, high-stress government career to a creative life built on courage, strategy, and radical self-honesty. What began as a fleeting thought on a train platform became a clear mandate, and instead of burning everything down, Amy chose a series of smart, sustainable pivots that changed her life.

We talk about the real mechanics of building a creative life: reclaiming time and energy, stacking small wins, and finding community before making big changes. Amy breaks down why so many aspiring authors stall, how to keep joy alive during endless revisions, and what it truly takes to finish a book.

We also dive into her practical guide, Wrangling the Doubt Monster, exploring how self-doubt is shaped by family dynamics and cultural pressures that value titles, money, and visibility over the quiet, unseen work of art. Instead of waiting for confidence, Amy shows how to move with doubt—and still make meaningful progress.

Plus, Amy offers a first look at Tent City, her upcoming speculative novel about a family clinging to the American dream during an economic collapse that feels uncomfortably possible.

If this episode nudged something awake in you, share it with a friend who needs the same reminder. If you haven’t yet, follow the show, rate it, and leave a review. It helps these conversations reach the people who need them most.


Website: https://amywrites.live

https://linkedin.com/in/amylbernstein

https://instagram.com/amylbernstein

https://facebook.com/AmyLBernsteinAuthor

https://amylbernsteinauthor.substack.com

https://medium.com/@amylbernstein

https://bsky.app/profile/amylbernstein.bsky.social

https://www.youtube.com/@amylbernstein00author


Pre-order Tent City now:
https://www.open-bks.com/library/moderns/tent-city/order.html


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Who Is Julie Fairhurst?

Speaker • Author • Business Strategist • Founder of Women Like Me

Julie Fairhurst is a force of nature disguised as a woman with a pen and a business brain built for impact. As the founder of the Women Like Me Book Program, she has opened the door for women around the world to share their truth, heal their past, and rise into their power. Since 2019, she has published more than 30 books and over 350 true-life stories — without charging a single writer a dime! Why? Because women’s stories deserve daylight, not gatekeeping.

With 34 years in sales, marketing, and successful business leadership, Julie knows how to turn storytelling into influence and influence into income.

Her mission is clear and unapologetic: break generational trauma one story at a time and help women elevate both emotionally and financially. She doesn’t just publish books, she builds brands, confidence, and possibility, giving women the tools to rewrite their futures, grow their businesses, and lift their families with them.


Julie's Website




SPEAKER_01:

Welcome everyone to another episode of Women Like Me Stories and Business. Today I have a really great guest, and I have, I'm just so excited to introduce her to you. So why don't we just get started and we'll go from there? So today's conversation is for every woman who's ever stared at her life and thought, is this all there is? And I know that I have, I know our guest has, and I know probably most of you have. For every woman who's ever felt the ache of a dream she didn't follow, or the loud exhaustion of a life that no longer fits. My guest today is Amy Bernstein, a woman made, a woman who made a bold life pivot decision from a soul-sucking career. So I want to hear about that. And a creative life that demands courage, resilience, and radical self-honesty. This is a conversation about faith, fear, failure, and what happens when a woman chooses herself, anyways. So thank you, Amy, for being here. I appreciate it so much. Thank you, Julie. I'm looking forward to the conversation. Perfect. So why don't we start off by you just telling us all a little bit more about yourself?

SPEAKER_00:

Sure. I spent uh decades uh in my professional life writing in one form or another. And that's basically how I earned my bread and butter. You know, I was an English major in college way back when. And what's so striking to me looking back is that I didn't dare call myself a writer until I was like in my 50s. Somehow that seemed too glamorous, and I put it up on a pedestal and I didn't think I was good enough, and I was so filled with self-doubt, which is why I wrote a book about self-doubt. And so I really um came through all those years working so hard, writing, not calling myself a writer. And now I'm on the far side of all of that and feeling very differently about all of it. It's been really quite an amazing think transformation for me personally, that uh I enjoy helping others to see for themselves.

SPEAKER_01:

Wonderful. Oh, well, I can't wait to get into uh the author part of it because we have a lot of lady authors who uh who are watching. But let me ask you my dying. What was the former soul-sucking career that that you that um that you left? And what was that more moment? How did like were you ignoring that? Was it bringing you down? Can you tell us about that? Because I think a lot of people sometimes are in that spot and they don't know what to do.

SPEAKER_00:

So I worked for the US federal government for nearly a dozen years. That's not the only job I had. Um it's the only soul-sucking job I had, but let's focus on let's focus on that one because that's that's when one of the the pivot moment um arose. And um, you know, on the one hand, there were aspects of the work that I suppose looking back, I could say were were fulfilling. But I was ironically, I was making uh a much higher salary than I ever imagined that I that I could. Um, and I had a lot of responsibility and uh the work was incredibly difficult, the stress levels were very high, and I was also working inside a bureaucracy that was so rigid that I realized now that somebody with my level of creativity and sort of outside the box kind of thinking, I was constantly being stifled and shot down and kind of told to behave. I don't mean, I don't mean directly, I mean in an indirect way. Yes. And I really did get to a point where I was working so hard and all my energy was going into this job, which also had a long commute. And I really did say to myself, and I I can explain the moment, uh, there was a really key moment, but I really did say to myself, this can't, this can't be it. I can't, I can't keep doing this because I think I'm going to get seriously depressed or something something bad's going to happen to me. I really did reach that point.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow. Wow. I think that um a a lot of women have that, and not just in for careers, but just soul-sucking life situations. Right. You know, it can even be friendships. It's just oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, it's it's I and let this is a universal experience because what happens is, and I can tell more about my own story, but what happens is suddenly you re you recognize that you're out of alignment between your insides and your outsides, that all the forces that are pushing down on you, bearing down on you externally, about work, about family obligations, about expectations, about about your roles and about gender roles, all those things are pressing on you. But you might be someone else deep inside, and that other person is not being allowed to live her life or express herself. And there comes a point where that pressure cooker can become unbearable if you're being really honest with yourself. And we need to find a way to get the outside and the inside to align a lot more harmoniously, and I think that's what we're working toward.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So when you realized that is this all there is, what where did you go from then? Did you get the courage? Like, did you snoop around and what else you could do? Or were you just like, I'm done? Like, what was that for you?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, no, I mean, I think the I think the I'm done moment is so scary and so big and feel like such a big break that too many of us don't do anything because we think that's the only option. And so I will explain how I took really small incremental steps. Well, they weren't that small, but I took incremental steps over a number of years to get to the to become the change that I wanted to see. I did not do it all at once. And I'm I don't see how I could have done that any other way. And I'll tell you too, what let me share the sort of there was a breaking point moment for me. I had a commute to work every day on a commuter on commuter trains. And on one, on the same platform in one direction, the train would take me down to Washington, DC. On the same platform in the other direction, literally just you know a couple yards behind me, was the train that would go up to New York City. And there was a day when I was feeling so broken, I was waiting for my commuter train, and I was thinking, I'm going to crawl, I'm going to go over to the other platform and I'm going to go to New York and I'm going to spend the day, and maybe I'm going to spend more than one day, and I'm not going to go to work and I'm not going to go home. I'm going to go somewhere else. And that was so uncharacteristic. I because I was, you know, I did all the things you were supposed to do. That I realized that that that pull was so strong. I did do it, but it came really close. And that's the moment when I knew something, something I have to make a change. Have to. Like it's not an option anymore. Have to. And that was really the catalyst for me. And I did take steps, as I said, which I which is I really encourage people to think of this as an incremental process that you can manage in your own life without completely, you know, turning over the whole Apple cart. I started changing, I did it by changing jobs. I took jobs that were both closer to home and somewhat less responsibility and somewhat less pay, but it began to free me up little by little to do more creative work and to take back sort of my a bit of my energy and my time. And when the pandemic hit, when COVID hit, by that point I was working part-time. My husband was continuing to work full-time so that we could keep, you know, keep meet our needs. And I turned to him and I said, It's not if, it's when I'm going to leave work, like work, work, and to do whatever I need to do for myself. And he was like, Okay, you warned me. It's been coming, it's been several years. It's not like I just got up one day and quit and tried to change everything at once. And I think it's so important to realize that in order to make change, not everything has to change. And that's really helpful.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow. I think that's um that's such a good lesson that you just told us about your life because because sometimes people jump because they think, yeah, I've had enough, and now they just jump, and sometimes they jump right into a fire and then jump back or or have huge regrets. And so I think, you know, taking, if you can, start to plan. You know, you're you know you're done with whatever it is you're doing, and then start to plan. And I totally get you about the creativity. I never thought, I never thought in a million trillion years I would be doing what I'm doing right now with you, books, writing, all of that stuff. It was nowhere on my radar, but I am so fulfilled. And I and I retired a year and a half ago to do it full time.

SPEAKER_00:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and you play and you planned for it. And I planned for it. Yes, I uh as painful as it was, I did. And it was more like and more like a side hustle. So I'm still doing my job, so I'm fulfilling the needs of the family, doing bringing my share, doing everything that I need to do, and and still starting to create over here. But then I knew I can't even do that anymore. This is this is where it's at. And that was the stepping stone.

SPEAKER_00:

That's right. That's that's so right. And um I think too, when people are struggling, particularly with the practicalities of these kinds of changes and the and the financial end, one of the things that you can do for yourself that doesn't involve any change in your financial dynamic is whatever you whatever interest is calling you that's not being fulfilled. And it could be anything. It you're right, writing is one thing, right? Could it be anything, could be you want to learn how to bake amazing cakes, you want things you're thinking about becoming an entrepreneur and just you know hanging out your shingle. I mean, there's any number of things that could be. Um find a community of like-minded people with those skill sets or who, like you, want to learn those skill sets and try to find that community in real life or even online so you can begin to make that that that different that that transition and that different life feel real. And that's just a matter of carving out some time, doing a little research. Nothing else has to change right away. But so, for example, if you if you have a call to write and you don't know any writers, and you're not hanging around with writers, and you're not in a writing community, and you can you can substitute the word writing for anything you want, go find those like-minded people who will support and encourage your dream and understand it even before you make any other changes. And that's something you can do before you make any other changes. And I think it's a really valuable first step.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. Thank you for that. That is that is, I think, will be so helpful to anyone who's listening who feels stuck and and you know, just that that urge to to jump, but sometimes jumping is not the best. Slide in slowly if you can. If you're able to jump, well, feel free to jump, but be careful about disturb disrupting too much of ourselves. Yeah, yeah. So when creativity came to you, how did you know that? Like, did you always feel that you were creative? Um uh, did you when did that kind of come in? And is that being fulfilled through your writing?

SPEAKER_00:

I I think that I was my whole temperament and I was just born with an impulse and an urge to express myself through writing. And uh, you know, I remember, you know, writing short stories in second grade. Um, and that it just meant a lot to me. And I think the fact that I can remember one of the stories a little bit means it really must have been an important moment because only the only the important stuff kind of lodges itself in your brain. Um and so that was just it was just innately my own, the way my brain worked or works. But I really I denied myself the uh opportunity to pursue that really seriously in my early 20s. Yes, I did major in English literature, which was a very common major at the time. So I was creative in that, of course I had to, I had to write a lot, but I didn't let myself take the risks of pursuing uh really creative writing. Like I didn't go on to a graduate school for, say, you know, a master's in in um fine arts and MFA. I didn't go to film school. I looked at these things and I felt, oh, well, that's just not practical. That's not for me, that's for other people. I have to go out and get a job, which was soul-sucking from the get-go.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

So my creativity was always there. I sat, I remember, I remember taking a lunch, I was in my 20s and taking a lunch hour from a a job um where I was not treated very nicely, and sitting on the grass at lunch hour trying to write a romance novel. And I I didn't know what I was doing, I just had the urge, right? Yeah, and so I didn't, I didn't get very far. I didn't, I didn't have that community. I didn't know, it didn't even occur to me where to find that. And this is way before the internet, all that kind of stuff, anyway. And I I didn't, you know, that that venture didn't last very long, but the impulse was there, and the impulse never truly went away, it just got buried deeper and deeper. And that's why all those decades later, you know, it's like it gets to this point where it will not be denied any longer. And I just had to start writing creatively. I had to start letting it out.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, I love that. It would just not be denied any longer. Yeah, that's where you want to get. That's the passion. Yes. Yeah. So tell us a little bit about your writing.

SPEAKER_00:

So tell us about your books and what you're up to. Well, I've written seven books, and I know many people have written many more than that, but I already can't believe I've written seven. Um, I don't know how many more are in me. I hope, I hope, I hope a bunch to see. Um, but um, it's been a it's been a kind of a crazy journey for me. So I've written six novels and one nonfiction book. Um, and the nonfiction book is Wrangling the Doubt Monster, Fighting Fears, Finding Inspiration. And maybe we'll talk about that in a bit because that comes up from a lifetime of being filled with self-doubt and how to manage that. Yeah. Um, the novels are all over the place. I mean, I've written romance, I've written young adult, I've written uh fantasy, I've written mystery thriller, and now I've written um speculative novels, which basically sort of ask questions about what the future might be like. Um, in ways that are rather sort of dark and help us take a look at the way things are now. Um so the newest novel is coming out this spring, uh, which we can also talk talk about um a bit. But yeah, so it's I also am a book coach. So I have a paying clientele. I help other authors find their own best path to publishing, particularly in the nonfiction space, because I was a journalist and I draw on that side of my skills. And I teach writing workshops um all around the country, online and in person. So I'm I'm really sort of fulfilling many aspects of the my creative self, which kind of adds up to feeling more fulfilled.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Well, let me ask you then, just a tip for any of our authors or would-be wanted, uh, would-be authors out there, what do you think holds them back? Because I remember reading a stat. Now I might get my numbers not exact here, from the US. And it was like 86% of people want to write a book, only 3% do. So that leaves an awful lot of people unfulfilled and not achieving their dreams. So, what is it that stops us?

SPEAKER_00:

Many things. It, it's, you know, we're not most of us. Let me just say a bold statement. The vast majority of us are not built to write a book, despite the adage, oh, everyone has a book in them. I actually do not think that's true. Um, just like, you know, I'm not gonna go out and be star athlete, not everyone is, you know, cut out cut out for this. There's the things that hold people back are so many that you think that you think that the universe will conspire to try and hold down the number of people who are actually going to write a book. And yet, of course, millions of books are published every year. So a lot of people do make it through, right? Um, but it it's it really is a number of things. First of all, it's uh not being able to hold on to the joy and the passion that drive you to get up and do this difficult thing every day anyway. Writing is very, very hard. So we don't do hard things without a lot of incentives, no matter what they are. Um, so you have to be internally incentivized. A lot of people lose touch with that. It just becomes too difficult and they they they they stop. Another thing that stops people is they are not, as I mentioned, they're not plugged into any um creative communities that understand the work that they're doing and support them and encourage them and help help to also incentivize that journey. So whether that's a critique group or just some other kind of a writing group or writing association or attending writers' conferences, so they're not plugged into any of that. So it's a very lonely thing. And pursuits that are very lonely, we often don't always stick to those either. And another thing that holds uh people back is it's not just about write something and you're done. Writing a book, seriously, is a long process that involves a tremendous amount of revision. It involves a tremendous amount of um editorial work and working with editors and people outside, um, you know, beyond you. And it's a world filled with rejection if you want to start sharing that work or try and get it submitted or published. So there are many, many reasons why a would-be writer will go off track. And the the only reason fundamentally that writers stay on track is because they believe in themselves, in their work, in their voice, and they have a passion to see it through despite the obstacles. That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you for that. I appreciate that. Now I want to know about your book about self-doubt. I think this is a perfect leadway into it. So tell us about this book. Why did you write a book about self-doubt?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. Wrangling the Doubt Monster is the little book that every self-doubting creative person kind of needs and deserves. It's a short book and it really does focus on inspiring people who are filled with doubt and letting them feel really seen, maybe for the first time. So it's not a hardcore how-to book. There are a lot of books out there like that. It really is a book to help you see how you can manage doubt. And the way I put it is you can learn to walk with doubt. Um, and doubt really does plague very creative people for a number of reasons, and we can go into some of that. But I wrote the book because I finally realized I had been wrestling with self-doubt and it had been holding me back for so many years in so many ways. I wanted to start normalizing conversations around what self-doubt feels like, what it does to us, how it holds us back, and how I was putting into practice ways of progressing with my own art form and committing to it despite feeling self-doubt. So it it really is a helpful book, and people are um uh it's being really, really well received by people who read it and you keep it by your computer, and you keep it on your nightstand, and you really hold on to it.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow. Yeah, it's and we all have it. It does, I don't think it matters who you are, what you do, um, most of us anyway. Uh it's just a human thing we have, but but some of us have it a lot worse. Some of us have it a lot worse to the point where it's uh debilitating. So, can you talk a little bit about that? What if somebody really has self-doubt? Doesn't they wake up in the morning self-doubting, they go to bed self-doubting.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. So I want to talk about where a lot of that comes from. I've done a number of creativity workshops, which has I've yielded with with artists from different disciplines, and some really interesting insights have bubbled up from that. When you are a hardcore, round-the-clock self doubter, like all you have are those negative, negative thoughts about yourself and and doubting your capabilities. Very often, wouldn't say always, but very often, you need to take a hard look at your own background and your upbringing and your childhood experiences, because very often we Folks feeling that way were grew up in families where they were not given a lot of positive reinforcement and encouragement, and where parents really actually said to them to them, you'll never amount to anything. Oh, you know, you always start things, you never finish anything. Why don't you, you know, you need to pick something and and stick with it. You're not really, you know, just not a com I don't see what you haven't accomplished anything. You know, you don't have any ambition. I mean, there's all kinds of ways that we get messages um from our parents and from and siblings and other people who do they love us, but they're giving us a lot of negative feedback. I have spoken with with with women in particular struggling so hard to write because they have such a deep urgency. And the voice in their heads, again and again, is a father and then a husband who's saying, This is this is a stupid waste of your time. You're not going to become a best-selling author. Why are you bothering? You know, you can't do this. And so we have to acknowledge where the doubts are coming from. And that is one very painful, difficult source. And we have to recognize those patterns because you can't break a pattern until you can see it. Yes. The other thing that's happening, uh, even more broadly than that, is that we live in a culture that prioritizes and values things often completely unrelated to creativity and creative endeavors. We live in a culture that values money, power, titles, prestige, high visibility, all things of that nature. When you are doing a creative act, you're often alone. There's there's no monetary gain. There's no, you're not necessarily being efficient in the way that our culture values. You're not being quote unquote productive in the way that our culture recognizes, because art, you know, marches to its own drummer. It evolves at its own pace. We we we make something out of nothing in our own way, in our own time. All of that is out of step with cultural values and priorities. So it's only natural that you're gonna feel really doubtful about what you're doing because you're going down a path that's not particularly well supported. So there's a lot going on right with those two things.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. You're you're so right. Support and of course the messages that we receive. I just want to tell you one really quick story about when I was in my early 20s and I met this lady and we connected, and she sold tuberware. Remember tuberware way back then? Oh, yes, yes. And so I thought, I could do that. That sounds great. So I was so excited about it. We were talking about it at the table, and my ex-husband came in from outside, and she looked at him and said, Oh, Julie's gonna sell tuberware. Isn't that exciting? And he looked at her and then he looked at me, and then he looked at her and he said, She'll never do it. And he walked out the door, and you know what? I never did it.

SPEAKER_00:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm not, I do not have that mindset anymore. But they shut me down for a long time, a long time.

SPEAKER_00:

I totally hear you. And you know, when we look back and we think, why did why was that the last word? Why did I not have the inner fortitude to say, well, excuse me, but f you, buddy, I can do this, I'm going to do this. Yeah. Um, and you know, some of this, again, some of this is rooted in gender, gender behavior, right? The way you would, you know, some of that. And and some of it is that it's so much easier to believe in the the negative, the negative side than it is to believe in the positive. I mean, it's harder for us to sort of remind ourselves about our competencies that are there. We're good at things, we're good at a lot of things. We've had successes or we know we know what we're capable of. It's just easier to let the negative messages win a lot. And we have to remember to constantly battle against that. Yeah. But I really hear you from that episode is just far too common, particularly. And then, and then women in particular, they'll just shut down. Um a man will just go, just brush that off and just go on his way. Yes. And and but a woman will will just as though she was just defined, as though so we let other people define us. And that's yeah, that's a whole the whole thing, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and then we and we internalize, you know, and then of course, oh well, maybe I can't do it. Maybe that's maybe this is stupid. Oh, I don't even want to try because I'll just fail. And then off you go. Yeah. Right. I just thought I'd share that little. I I really hear you. As I said, ex-husband. Um so uh what about your up-and-coming book that you've got?

SPEAKER_00:

So this one sounds so darn interesting, right? Right. People can find out monster everywhere, and I encourage them to go do that, Amazon and other places. Um, so my next novel is called Tent City. And it's funny because just this morning, um, there's a there's a um there's a newspaper here in the US called the New York Post. Um, and um the New York Post read an article this morning about um the homeless population in the city, and the first line of the article said, The city is becoming a tent city. And so it had the title of my novel in the in the article. And it was kind of a it was a weird moment for me because the book, the book um is a takes a hard look at um one family's desperate struggle to hold on to the American dream during a a sort of a apocalyptic level economic decline.

SPEAKER_01:

I saw that on your website. That picture with and then the tent. Oh, now I know what that was all about.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, yeah. Interesting. So, I mean, I I I I'll be real and say this is not an escapist book, but because I like to write books that let people feel but also make them think. And so this book is right in line with that. And that, I mean, yes, it's a story, it's a family saga, there's a lot of juicy stuff that goes on. Um, but ultimately it's sort of taking gearing into, you know, a darker future, um, dark future, not necessarily the future we're heading into, and yet it's it's uh always asks a what-if question. What if this were to happen? What if there were to be, you know, a true collapse of sort of economic function? What would that look like? What if people ended up pitching tents because they were homeless and jobless on someone's lawn? What would happen? And this book explores a lot of that, particularly with a focus on a one family.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow. That sounds like a very interesting book. Very interesting. I hope so. Yeah. And um, yeah, it's um, yeah, it's not not good out there for a lot of folks. So, do you do a lot of research then when you go to write? How do you you get your idea and then what do you do? How do you how do you get all of that out of here? Where does it come from?

SPEAKER_00:

Right. Well, because I was a journalist, I do have an um, and because I worked in in sort of non-fiction communications uh jobs for so long, I do have a bent toward research. Even even my paranormal romance is a researched book. Like I don't, I don't just make things up. I love to bring in things from the real world and blend them in a way that the the re the reader can't always tell what's real and what's not, but I know the real stuff is there. Um, so that, so that even in a even in a even in a paranormal romance, I'm researching what's the actual type of tree that grows in that part of that state. So I can get the right tree. I'm not gonna just like yes. So I do like to research and I do and I do research on and for Tent City, I did have to do quite a bit of research because I have characters with jobs that I don't have any firsthand knowledge of, but I know that's what I wanted them to be able to do. Yeah. And so I did a lot of research on on things like that so it would feel real.

SPEAKER_01:

I think that, you know, I I we do, you know, true life stories, and I have a lot of collaborative books with ladies. And um, but uh I've been thinking about thinking about writing a different kind type of book. And the research part of it, because I personally love research, and so the research part of it actually excites me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, research is wonderfully fun, but whether you're in nonfiction or fiction, it's really important not to let the research become the tail that wags the dog. In other words, a lot of the research is sort of set it and forget it. Like you learn, you're gonna learn more than you can ever use in a book. And you want to make sure that the research is working in service to the story and not overwhelming it. And that's a very hard balance to strike. It's one of the many courses that I teach, actually.

SPEAKER_01:

Bring research into your well, I just want everyone to know that we are going to have access to Amy in the show notes. So if any of you want to explore what the opportunities that she has, so though those will be there for you. Um so make sure you check those out. Well, I just um I love this conversation that we're having. I could go on and on and on and on, Amy, but we probably shouldn't. For the sake of anyone who chooses to listen, we probably shouldn't, but show it. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So oh dear.

SPEAKER_00:

I've enjoyed it too.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, yeah, exactly. So um, so in closing, Amy, what would you like to say to our audience? What would you like to, just anything at all, what would you like to say to them?

SPEAKER_00:

I think anyone listening who is thinking about trying to be more creative in their life, not not necessarily for profit, not necessarily for a career pivot, but for satisfaction. Don't hold back. You are never too old to start. It's never too late. It's not about necessarily becoming the best of the best. It's about really finding what is fulfilling and joyful for you. And whether that's taking up weaving or knitting or painting or writing or baking or whatever it is, um, you should not hold back from doing it. Every human being has the right to be creative, and it's not a waste of time, it's a wonderful way to enrich yourself and your spirit and your life.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. Perfect. Perfect. Very well said. That's perfect for our ending. Well, Amy, thank you so much for being willing to do this. I greatly appreciate it. I have learned so much from you, and I'm going to go back and snoop around on your website myself. So, everyone, uh, thank you for listening. Remember, check out the show notes so you can find information on how to reach out to Amy and what she has to offer. And uh and go be creative. You've got everybody has, whether it's cooking or something. We all have it because it just helps to fulfill you, especially if you're feeling, you know, a little burnt out or stuck, but it can just uplift you. Yeah. So okay, Amy. Well, thank you very much. And hopefully we'll see you again one day. Thank you, Julie. You're welcome.