Women Like Me Stories & Business

Rhonda Devlin-Gilbert: From Loss To Light With A Spiritual Sherpa

• Julie Fairhurst • Episode 168

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When grief stacks up, the mind scrambles for control, and the heart goes numb. We brought on Rhonda Dalvin Gilbert, a spiritual sherpa, author, and coach, to walk us through a month that tested everything: closing her brick-and-mortar shop, losing two family members, and saying goodbye to a beloved cat. What emerged isn’t a silver lining story, but a grounded map for moving through pain with dignity: a sacred pause, honest tools, and a clearer path back to center.

Rhonda unpacks why all therapy is grief therapy, because change requires letting go of timelines, identities, and expectations. She shows how to turn ordinary moments into ritual, using the never-ending prayer of daily life to restore presence. We dig into practical practices, talk therapy that names what hurts, mirror work to meet the inner child, tarot as a prompt for hard self-conversations, and energy work to settle the nervous system. The goal isn’t to predict the future; it’s to choose it with open eyes.

We go deep on forgiveness: how it differs from condoning, why it’s the most freeing decision you’ll make, and how releasing resentment returns color to your world. Rhonda shares stories that sparked her own shift, and we connect forgiveness with gratitude, intuition, and dreams. Learn how a single, specific nightly gratitude with a clear why can align your conscious and subconscious, and how tracking dreams over ten nights reveals the patterns your waking mind misses. Along the way, we talk agency, owning your past, and the courage to love when anger feels safer.

If you’re carrying loss—of a person, a role, a plan, or a past self—this conversation offers tools you can use today. Subscribe, share this episode with someone who needs a gentle guide, and leave a review to tell us: what are you ready to release next?

Rhonda on Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/rhonda.devlingilbert

Goddess Garage Tarot Parlour :  https://www.facebook.com/thegoddessgarage

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Who Is Julie Fairhurst?

Speaker • Author • Business Strategist • Founder of Women Like Me

Julie Fairhurst is a force of nature disguised as a woman with a pen and a business brain built for impact. As the founder of the Women Like Me Book Program, she has opened the door for women around the world to share their truth, heal their past, and rise into their power. Since 2019, she has published more than 30 books and over 350 true-life stories — without charging a single writer a dime! Why? Because women’s stories deserve daylight, not gatekeeping.

With 34 years in sales, marketing, and successful business leadership, Julie knows how to turn storytelling into influence and influence into income.

Her mission is clear and unapologetic: break generational trauma one story at a time and help women elevate both emotionally and financially. She doesn’t just publish books, she builds brands, confidence, and possibility, giving women the tools to rewrite their futures, grow their businesses, and lift their families with them.


Julie's Website




SPEAKER_00:

Hi everyone, welcome to another episode of Women Like Me Stories and Business. And I have one of my favorite people here. This lady has written in our Women Like Me books, and she's got so much depth and so much, there's so many interesting things about her. I just can't wait to dive into this uh conversation with her. So today we are going to talk to the lovely Rhonda Dalvin Gilbert. Now she is in Kingston, Ontario, so she's in Canada, and she's an author, she's a small business owner, and she's a spiritual sheppa, if I pronounce that Sherpa, Sherpa. So, Rhonda, welcome, welcome and thank you for being willing to do this. Oh, thank you for having me, Julie. So, can you tell us all? Just I know I had to double check with you. So if I don't know, there's others that don't know. What's a sherpa or shappa? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, sherpa.

SPEAKER_01:

It's not a commonly used word, but anyone who's mountain climb gone mountain climbing often knows what it is. And what a sherpa is, is it's someone you hire to help guide you through difficult passages. And normally a sherpa is someone who takes you somewhere on earth through difficult passages and knows the lay of the land and hell knows how to help guide you through those difficult spots. So I'm a spiritual sherpa and I uh have a lot of metaphysical tools at my fingertips, as you well know. And to bundle them all together, I call myself a spiritual sherpa because I hope that I have the honor of being at someone's uh uh back and call for difficult moments in their lives to help them and guide them and provide light for them in the dark times.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, I love that. Okay, thank you for explaining that. I've got it now. I won't forget. So before we started recording, you were telling me a little bit about life in September for you. Yes. Can you just touch on that a little bit about our audience? Because it's gonna because I think what was going on in your life in September is gonna bridge us into the conversation that we're gonna have.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, absolutely. Uh September hit me hard. The universe, you know, was making me pivot and change and whatnot. And so the first week of September, I closed down my brick and mortar shop and I pivoted to only being online now. And then the second week of September, a cousin of mine died very suddenly. And then the third week of September, a dear uncle of mine passed away. And then the fourth week of September, I woke up and found one of my cats, Myrtle, dead.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh yeah. Now that is a tough month, very tough, very tough. Wow, from just all of it, all of it. So, so how do you deal with how do you deal with that kind of grief? Because even though, you know, because I mean your business technically sort of died, right? That part of it, and and family members and your beloved pet. Like, how do how does somebody deal with that much grief and trauma in a such a short period of time?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, like every weekend there was a funeral to go to, it felt like. And you know, like I went into September, I knew I was gonna be shutting my shop down, so I went in already. Like, I got this universe, I know how to do grief. Um, because I do grief counseling, so I'm gonna give myself that sacred pause, as I call it, to reflect and and all this. I'm all prepared for grieving. What I wasn't prepared for was the other three that were gonna come back at me. And of course, you know, like as much as I love my family, it's so hard losing a pet. It is so, so hard. And um, so I you know, I was like, okay, universe, we gotta, I I understand I gotta take a pause, but this is a hell of a pause. And and and but I I knew I needed to slow down, that I needed to honor the grief for what it is, and and really grieving, um, well, actually, all therapy, as I was saying, all therapy is grief therapy, because therapy requires change and transformation and and being better, quote unquote. And and that requires you to um accept the change. And accept change means you have to accept releasing things, whether it's perceptions about yourself, whether it's timelines you had in mind for um your life, um, whether it's heartbreak, you know, because when you have a broken heart, it means you've lost someone you love, right? And and all of that requires change, and all of that all rolled into a nice, neat little ball is grief therapy.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh yeah, as as you're as you're talking, I'm thinking, because I've gone through some grief uh this month actually. And um I haven't uh no one has passed away, but people have um, but it's been letting go. Yeah, yeah. And and I found that the longer I held on and didn't say this is not my this is I finally had to say this is not for me to bear. Like I need to release this. Uh I you know, I just I have to release this because mentally I was going crazy. And my heart hurt. And my heart hurt. Yeah. Yeah. So so it I I think you're so right. It is so much um a release. But I mean, you know, no one, no one died in in my life, luckily, but but but um, you know, that would be even harder to have to say, you know, I have to release this.

SPEAKER_01:

And and yeah, we we're all human and we're all guilty at some point or another of hanging on to something much longer than we should. And sometimes grief is letting go of the anger we have against someone who's done something wrong to us, or letting go of the pain that we've suffered in life because of circumstances, because of people, whatever it might be. But we have to give ourselves, like I said, that sacred pause to allow the anger, the grief, the bitterness, the whatever it might be to simmer, and then we need to let it go.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, yeah, yeah. Because I guess it just we can't continue to have things boil up inside of us.

SPEAKER_01:

No, because then you just end up with a dirty stove and no soup.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly, exactly. Oh my goodness, yeah. So, how do you help people through their grieving process? What what are what are some of the things that you're able to do to help people?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, the way I often help, well, first of all, it depends on the kind of grief, right? There's different kinds of grief, like I've mentioned before, that sometimes it's you know, the loss of a job, it could be uh the uh you know, loss of a partner, and I don't mean through death always, it could be divorce or just a breakup or whatever. Um, but the way I often help people is to give them the permission to slow down and to reflect. And let's talk about this. I give, I try to give them that sacred space to express themselves, you know, and in any way, shape, or form they want. It's okay to be angry, it's okay to want to kill someone, you know, it's okay to, you know, uh be sad. It's okay to, you know, it's not weak to cry, for instance. So many people are like, oh, I hate crying, oh, I don't like it. It's sign of weakness. It's like, no, actually, it takes a lot of courage to cry. Yeah, and it takes a lot of courage to really look at the pain that you are going through. And I try to hold people's souls and give them the space to express those things so that then they can work through them. Because the problem is a lot of people think they've got to get over it, you're never gonna get over it. You can work through it absolutely, and forgiveness is a big step to take, especially in anything that where you feel you've been wronged in some way, and sometimes it's God Himself you gotta forgive.

SPEAKER_00:

Sometimes, sometimes you're right, yeah. So you've got you've got um, so you have quite a spiritual background.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. I I I'm a master tarot reader, um, I'm a ninth degree uh Reiki master, grandmaster, actually. Um, I do angel therapy. I'm a big believer in angels because people think they're a religious thing and no, they cut across all belief systems right from the beginning of time. Um, I uh I yeah, I have so many I can't even remember half of the things I do.

SPEAKER_00:

And so how does that, how does how does your spiritual background then help people when they come to you?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I mean, I was raised Roman Catholic. So, and I obviously have since moved away a little bit from that. But the even my upbringing in a strict Roman Catholic household did teach me the power of, first of all, prayer and the power of ritual and and how to bring things into the sacred. Everything we do, we should be striving to make it sacred because we're sacred ourselves, we're divine. And a lot of mystics and saints have talked about what's called the never-ending prayer. And what that is, is a constant coming back to center and honoring everything we do, whether it's right from brushing our teeth to doing our dishes to um, you know, getting along with others, to get along with our coworkers, all of these things should be sacred. That's the goal of every human being walking this planet. As I'm sure you've heard many times, we're sacred beings having a human experience. Yes, yes, and that yeah, and that's our goal is to create sacredness while we're here, learning to come back to center, because in center is where sacredness is, that's where peace is, that's where love is, that's where forgiveness is. To understand all is to forgive all.

SPEAKER_00:

Love that. So, do you use um so what kind of tools do you use for helping when you're helping people?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, uh, I mean, I guess I use a lot of talk therapy. Again, um, I I get them to talk out their feelings, but I use other things like I use mirror magic, for instance, and you know, talking to yourself in the mirror, reaching into your inner child. And I always warn people it's gonna feel a little weird the first time you talk into a mirror, and you can make sure no one's home if you want. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My husband just walks by me now and goes, Oh, yeah, she's just doing her mirror matching.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, exactly. Well, I I think that there's um there's a lot of people that are in grief, just but but it's but I think it's it's it's misdescribed maybe as anger or or fear or so many other things. I remember years ago when I when I was in my 30s and I was starting to sort of wake up to reality and life. Um, I remember grieving that I didn't have a better past.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. And that seems to be something a lot of women struggle with in particular, is if I'd only known, if I'd done this, if I'd done that. And it's like you can't undo the past. That's the one thing, right? You can't know the future for sure, but you can't undo the past. And you have to forgive yourself for the decisions that you've made and trust in whatever spiritual higher being you believe in that you are where you're supposed to be right now. Yes, and take the lessons from all those past bad decisions as well as the good.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, yes. No, when I look back on my life where I am today, 100% everything that happened made me and helped me to where I am. Good things and the bad. Yeah, yeah, but sometimes when we're in that bad state, we don't really get it.

SPEAKER_01:

No, no, absolutely not. We'll own the good stuff, all the good stuff. Yeah, that was all me, but the bad stuff. Like, what are you talking about?

SPEAKER_00:

I would never yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah, it's a um, it's a tough thing for a lot of people to to deal with for sure.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ownership, it's it's called owning your shit, as I say, yeah. Um, and and when you do that, that's a very powerful moment. And I love it when I see the light bulb go on, and I know, yeah, they're ready to own everything in their lives, good, bad, or ugly kind of thing. Yeah, and and it's so power. It brings me weeping and brings me to my knees every time. Wow that I'm just like, oh my god, you're in such a great spot right now.

SPEAKER_00:

What do you think about forgiveness? Um, so I had a writer a couple of books back, uh, went through a very traumatic experience, and the title of her chapter was forgiveness is a word I don't understand. Yeah. So what is what do you think about forgiveness?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, you and I, as you said earlier, have talked in the past. And I I have like I was raped when I was 16, and I've had a lot to forgive to move through that. And it's for me, when I'm coaching someone or when I'm helping someone through grief, I often find I have to gauge where they're at, right? Because sometimes the wound is so fresh, they're not ready to forgive, but I still plant the seed because I I still have faith in this other human soul that once they reach that stage where they're able to forgive, and I preach this to a lot of people, that it's the most freeing moment you'll have. It's true freedom. You don't think it is at the time because you think you're justified in holding on to your anger, to your your your regret, to whatever it might be. But actually, when you truly forgive, then it's a beautiful moment. And even the angels will weep for you and cry tears of joy for you. And yeah, the the world gets more colorful because it's like colors come back into your life again.

SPEAKER_00:

So, what do you think uh forgiveness is then? So, so I mean, even in your situation, you went through that that very traumatic experience that affected your life for many, many, many years. And so were you able to forgive? Like, how is like I like in my mind, forgiveness is I'm confused. You tell me what you think forgiveness. You tell me what forgiveness is. I need a lesson in forgiveness. A lot of people, yeah, it's okay.

SPEAKER_01:

A lot of people confuse forgiveness with condoning, and forgiveness is not condoning because a lot of times we'll be tempted to say something, oh, it's okay. And I often tell people, stop saying it's okay because it's not okay, but you can still forgive, and you're not okay with what they did, right? So there's two different things, and and so my my the guy that raped me, it took me a long time to come to this place. So, you know, it's okay if you don't get it in a day. I yeah, I understand. Um, but if if someone came to me now and or if well, actually, if I died now and God came to me and said, you know, do you want us to punish him rightly so for what he did? I can honestly say no. I I have forgiven him completely. Help guide and correct him in any way that his soul needs to elevate itself. Because when he elevates, so do I. And when I elevate, so does he. So right now, and I always jokingly say I don't want to have tea with the guy or anything like that, but but I want him to find his way. I don't know if he's dead or alive right now, but I hope if he's alive, that angels are helping him find his way. And the reason I can say that is I was inspired by a story um of two Jewish twins who uh got found in Nazi Germany. And in Nazi Germany, they very much liked to do experiments, especially with twins. Yes, yes, and so at the end of it, um, the one twin that was being experimented on was thrown into one of these warehouses in the concentration camps, and um, they figured she's just gonna die, right? And she just for whatever reason said if she she saw a tap dripping and she thought if she can make it to the top, she would live. And the minute a drop fell on her lips, she said that's when the uh uh allies came in and were getting everyone free from the camps. So at the war tribunal um uh trials, they uh they allowed uh one. Well, they were trying one of the doctors that experimented on her, and they allowed her to come and say what horrible things he did and blah blah blah. So her sister went and said, did all these horrible things, blah blah blah. She was the base one, so she wasn't experimented on. Yes, but the one who was experimented on, she wrote a letter of forgiveness to the doctor. And I'm like, oh my god, well, if she can forgive that, surely to God, I can forgive what had been done to me, and that that's always a true inspiration for me. You know, it's like I I get why she was telling her story of why she did it, and I get it now. I get it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah, I I I agree. I think that that um forgiveness is is more for our hearts because we're we stop carrying around that anger, that resentment, that that, oh, he did this to me, and oh, that person, and and and it's just not like you say, it's not condoning what they did, but it's just releasing that, releasing that that those that that negativity, because really at the end of the day, I at the really at the end of the day, he doesn't know, she doesn't know. Nobody's over there thinking, oh poor Julie, oh, I shouldn't have said that to her. You know, they're off having a great life. I'm the one who's you know who's internalizing that garbage, so really it's it's for me to get rid of.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's a it's a freeing selfish act, and I don't mean selfish as in selfish, I mean you do it for your own self-care, yes, because people don't understand because you want to hang on to that anger. Trust me, I wanted to hang on to that anger. I felt, yeah, I should be angry at this person for the rest of my life, but it's like, well, he's not thinking about me, so why am I letting him rent free space in my head?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, and and I think that anger is a form maybe of because when you go through that, I I haven't personally been raped, but but I can imagine if you go through that as a very powerless experience, you have no power in that, and then with other situations and that by by being angry and however else you feel, that there is a sense of power to that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, anger can feel very powerful in the moment, but it's ultimately very weak. The strongest force in the universe is love, and love brings hope, peace, and forgiveness. Yeah, anger shatters at the smallest thing.

SPEAKER_00:

I guess too, I guess, Rhonda, it's like, what do you want in your life? Regardless of who's done what to you, or where you've been, or where you came from, or or how many times you've been kicked when you're down. You have to decide, well, what do I ultimately want for my life?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, absolutely. And everybody wants to be loved, everyone wants peace, everybody wants to have hope for the next day or the next month or whatever. And that is where love is, and forgiveness brings you to love. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I have a uh a uh young lady who's just she wrote in one of my books, and now I just helped her with her full life story, and it's going to be coming out this week. And she was hit by a drunk driver uh in her early 20s. She's 29 now, I think, or she might be 30, but she's paraplegic. And uh, and she had just had a uh a son with a luckily he wasn't in the car, but he was, I think, two or three months old. And um, and during the trial, she said that she read her victim impact statement, uh, which had said nothing to do with forgiveness. And then they left for lunch to come back for, I guess, when the judge was going to sentence her. And she broke down in tears with the prosecutor, and she and he's and she said, I have one more thing I need to say. And they they opened up the court for her to so that she could say it before the the lady was sentenced. And she said, Oh, I get oh, I just get teary-eyed. She said, I forgive you. Oh, wow. I want you to know that I forgive you. Your children deserve, she had two children. Your children deserve to have a mother, like my child deserves me. Oh, just got tear-eyed. Sorry. Sorry, but that's the that's the ultimate, you know, yeah, the ultimate. Yeah, and um absolutely, yeah, yeah, and just you know, of course, not forgiving what happened. She's in a wheelchair for the rest of her life, but forgiving, forgiving her, if that makes sense, right? Yeah, just it was just I just thought it was like how unbelievably powerful that was for her to be able to do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it just hit her after she did, uh she said, you know, I it just hit me. I just started crying, and I just went to the prosecutor and said, I have one more thing I really need to say. Can you please make sure that I have an opportunity to say it?

SPEAKER_01:

So that's amazing. Well, she's probably able to release her anger through her victim impact statement, right? Absolutely, yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00:

And yeah, so you know, and and it's so good because you know, here she is now. She's written her full story, she's you know, telling it to others so that others can learn from what she's what she's dealt with, and um, I think she's gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_01:

That's amazing, you know, that's so lovely.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. So what the other thing I wanted to ask you about is what's your what are your feelings on gratitude? Um, well, I feel it's a good thing. Yeah, yeah. So, but do you find that the people that come to you when they're in grief, they've lost that sense of gratitude? And can and do they get that back?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, very much so. They they can lose sight of the gratitude because you're focused on the misery and the hurt and the pain and all that kind of stuff, right? So, gratitude, I often call it a forced shift. And what that means is gratitude brings you again to forgiveness, that brings you to love, that brings you to all the they're all connected. So if you can hit one, you can't help but get the others into your life. And really, gratitude, I feel works most effectively. You know, yes, you can look around and go, Oh yeah, I'm glad for my house, my car, my dog, yeah, blah, blah, blah. Right. Yeah, but you have to put the why behind it. So when I tell people, because when I tell people, have you ever done a gratitude journal? And people just roll their eyes and go, yeah, yeah, whatever, I'm very thankful. And I'm like, no, no, pick one thing a day that you are truly grateful for, whether it's the ham sandwich you had at lunch because it was just perfectly made, and answer why you love that ham sandwich so much. That is where you put yourself into true gratitude, which then links to all the other things. But just going, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, exactly. I agree. I think that I think that gratitude is one of the most powerful tools that we can use to change our lives.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I often, like I was saying, I often get people to start gratitude journals, but don't do a laundry list of 10 things. Pick one thing, yes, one moment, whatever it is in that day that you're most grateful for. I often recommend doing it right before bed so that you're in a state of gratitude when you go to sleep, when your subconscious turns on and wants to tell you stories through pictures, right? Yes, but if your conscious and subconscious are together, then things start to happen. Yes. So if your sub if your conscious mind is in gratitude mode and then your subconscious, which is always in gratitude mode, yes, they line up, things align, and then stuff starts happening.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, let me ask you again, because I'm getting I'm getting all my questions out. This is good. Okay, so what do you think of dreams?

SPEAKER_01:

Dreams, uh well, dreams are very powerful, and uh, you know, I also recommend a dream journal. Um, but I do tell people here's a couple of things, tricks about dreams. Okay, so dreams come from your subconscious mind. Your subconscious mind is actually your the your fastest mind in in your head, and it doesn't filter anything, so it will tell you everything about your day, but it does it in pictures, sort of a thousand words is or a picture is worth a thousand words, right? Yeah, so it can't sit and talk to you about everything that you saw that day or experience that day, it would you would have to sleep for a week. Yes, yes, but what I love about dreams is there's always a meaning behind everything. Now, so many people will come to me and go, I dreamt about this, and you know, there was a purple elephant and there was a plastic snake, and what do you think that means, right? And yeah, I and the thing I always tell them is what were the five dreams before it and what were the five dreams after it? Because what you're telling me is a paragraph of your story, and put about 10 days together, and you've got a whole chapter, and now you're starting to get the gist of the story. Because one thing your subconscious mind does very on purpose is it talks to us in patterns, because as humans, that's what we recognize. We recognize patterns, the facial pattern is usually the first pattern we recognize, right? Right. So we we speak right from the day we're born in patterns, we understand patterns, that's why we love stories because there's a pattern to a story, and we learn best through stories. So get your dream. out and do about 10 dreams and you'd be amazed at the patterns that start to be seen.

SPEAKER_00:

And oh that makes sense why you know you have one dream and and try to sit down and try to analyze that. But but you need to keep track of what those other dreams are. Oh I used to keep a dream journal years ago but I think I'm gonna grab another one and get started.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah yeah sometimes when I have a very vivid dream I'm like okay I better start journaling because my brain is trying to tell me something right yes exactly exactly yeah I think that you know we should listen to our intuition more often because it's so helpful whether that's our dreams or our gut feeling or um you know whatever that might be uh I think our intuition it's rare that it stirs us the wrong way oh absolutely but we're taught to not listen to it not you know oh that's just silly or you know things like that right and they've actually proven scientifically that there's gray matter in our stomach that's connected through the vagus nerve to our brain so that's why you know I you get a little upset somehow when you know you're in a scary situation or you know I'm not too sure about this person or when you're in love you get the butterflies in the stomach you know that sort of thing right so yeah our intuition definitely is there it's a real thing that tells us stuff we are just not smart enough to listen all the time that is so true wow well Rhonda I could go on and on I've got a zillion questions that I could ask you we're gonna have to start doing this one once a month it's it's Julie asking Rhonda question uh show again yeah so um so you're gonna send me links and so for what everybody should know is that if you would like to reach out to Rhonda Rhonda tell us a little bit about what you do other than the grief therapy you do other things yeah I do other things I do something that's called a bloom session which is basically life coaching and helping you pick you know where you need to go what directions are best. I also do uh tarot like I said earlier I'm a master tarot reader and tarot has been used in psychology because what I say about tarot is I'm not here to predict the future I'm not you know that sort of tarot reader what I am is a tarot reader that will help you start difficult conversations and often the most difficult ones are the ones you have to have with yourself first and then maybe other people in your life who knows we'll figure that out as we go kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah but yeah that I I uh do those kind of things so yeah and I do um some astrology as well so oh interesting okay yeah so yeah if anybody wants to reach out to Rhonda all of her information will be in the show notes as usual uh we'll have links there on how you can uh on how you can reach her and if you're not sure if the if if if you know if you've got uh dealing with something that she may or may not be able to help you with well reach out to her and just ask her and she'll let you know and and if she can't then then maybe she's able to direct you in a direction uh that can help you but more than likely she's going to be able to help you. So Rhonda thank you so much again. In closing what would you like to say to our audience um well I often would like to say to many clients as they're leaving is please know that you are loved that you are very precious and please don't ever lose hope because once you lose hope that's the end right yeah I know so so true so absolutely true and and um I I know a few people that have committed suicide in my life and and I often think about that and I think about how my own life how something would happen but then it we turn a corner and something good is there.

SPEAKER_01:

And I think about those poor people they didn't get to turn that corner you know it was yeah and and being able to create spaces for our friends for our family sometimes we have to be non-judgmental and just give them space to express whatever they need you know yeah for sure yeah well Rhonda thank you so much I have really enjoyed the conversation I have learned a few things and um and I hope that you have as well out there.

SPEAKER_00:

So thank you for uh watching this episode and we will see you next time. Take care everybody bye bye bye