Women Like Me Stories & Business
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Are you ready to embark on a captivating journey of business success and personal growth? Look no further, because Julie Fairhurst is here to enlighten and empower you through her incredible podcast.
Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur, a curious mind, or simply seeking motivation and inspiration, this podcast is a treasure trove of wisdom and guidance. Gain practical tips, innovative strategies, and actionable advice that you can apply to your own life and business endeavors.
Julie Fairhurst's passion for storytelling, combined with her extensive experience in the business world, makes "Women Like Me Stories & Business" a must-listen podcast for anyone craving insight, motivation, and a newfound sense of purpose.
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Women Like Me Stories & Business
Catherine Chapman King – Transforming Grief Into a Beacon of Hope and Healing
Have you ever wondered how one can transform unimaginable grief into a beacon of hope and wisdom?
In this heartfelt episode of Women Like Me, Stories and Business, I sit down with the incredible Catherine Chapman King, a newly published author who has turned her own devastating loss into a powerful narrative of resilience and healing.
Catherine's chapter, "Finding My Inner Light Again: Echoes of Love," featured in the book "Transferring Pain into Wisdom and Love," reminds us that even in our darkest moments, there is potential for growth and connection.
This conversation is a profound exploration of the pivotal role of empathy and compassion in the healing process. Drawing from personal experiences, Catherine shares how the empathy and compassion of friends and neighbors were instrumental in her journey of recovery after losing her husband.
Catherine and I discuss how these small gestures and genuine human connections can break through the isolation that often accompanies grief, reminding us of the enduring importance of family and community.
We also delve into the transformative potential of acknowledging and processing pain for personal growth.
Catherine shares her insights on how writing became a therapeutic outlet for her, helping her process her grief and find a new purpose.
We reflect on the various ways people can navigate their pain—whether through physical activities, counseling, or creative expression—and emerge stronger and more resilient.
This episode is a testament to the power of acknowledging and processing pain to redefine one's identity and find gratitude for the love and connections that persist through life's challenges.
Don't miss this inspiring conversation with Catherine Chapman King, and be sure to explore her story in "Transforming Pain into Wisdom and Love."
You can read Catherine's full story here!
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JULIE FAIRHURST
Success Coach, Master Persuader, Publisher, Author & Founder of the
Women Like Me Book Program
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Hi everyone and welcome to another episode of Women Like Me, stories and Business. Today I am with someone I'm very excited and pleased to have all of you learn about. She's a fabulous woman and I'm just so excited. First thing I'm going to tell you about Miss Catherine is that Catherine is a new author in our newest book, transferring Pain into Wisdom and Love, and it just came out maybe a month ago. We hit number one on all sorts of different categories, which was quite spectacular, so you would be able to find Catherine, should you decide you want to read her story. She is in chapter seven and her chapter is called finding my inner light again echoes of love. So welcome, catherine Chapman King, to our podcast. Would you please tell our listeners a little bit about yourself?
Speaker 2:Hi Julie. Well, thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited A little bit about myself. I'm a mother of five children. I have nine grandchildren, a great big, beautiful family. I was married for a very, very long time and lost my husband, so that's part of you know I'm not going to go into it right yet, but that's part of what I wrote my story about For work. Well, I do writing and I work with animals, which I love working with animals and I'm just a homebody, a family woman. I like to help people and I absolutely love writing. I've been through a lot of different things and I think that those experiences can help other people Absolutely Things that I've learned along the way or how to navigate through life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and and and in story is just fabulous because a woman can pick up the book and be in her own space and read that and then go, wow, I can, I can relate to this woman's story or to your story and then find some healing in that. Hopefully and I think your story is going to resonate with some people and I believe that you can definitely bring some healing Can you tell me, Catherine, why did you like? I know you love writing because you've been writing like a crazy girl, so that's awesome. Know you love writing because you've been writing like a crazy girl, so that's awesome. Um, but what, what is it? What? What made you want to write the story that you did?
Speaker 2:write in the book. Um, well, life is not easy. In general, just on a general level, life is not easy. It throws a lot of curve balls at us daily. Um, you know, there's a lot of things that can weigh on people and get us down, especially if you go through something that's very traumatic in your life, and I know a lot of people suffer in silence within their own minds from experiences they've gone through.
Speaker 2:I find writing very healing. I also find that when you open up more about yourself and share that it allows people to feel comfortable to open up about themselves and share Mental health is a huge thing. It's something that's dear to my heart and I truly believe that sharing my story and like going through that trauma and being in a very dark place where no light could penetrate in, and then going through that battle trying to find the light, um, I think it was an important story to share, just because, um, there is life, you know, after death, so to speak, and after other traumatic things, and it's a blessing to wake up every day. And I just want to help people that you know are struggling or going through things silently within their own mind from experiences, and hopefully, you know my sharing is helping other women and other people.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely. I just love what you said, Absolutely. Can you? Why don't we start off, Catherine, by you telling us a little bit about your story, because it is very I mean, you know it is quite a traumatic story, but you handled it with a lot of grace, as I read through your story, so why don't you just go ahead and start to tell us a bit about the story that you did write in the book?
Speaker 2:So, like I stated in the beginning, when I was letting you, the listeners, know a little bit about myself, being a mother of five children, I was married very young. I had my first child at 18. I was with my husband for many, many, many years, actually more than half my life and when I was younger, you know, a lot of girls dream of different things, but I dreamt of wanting to have a family and children, and I had that. And 10 years ago, actually July 13th, 10 years ago, I lost my husband and it was very tragic, very sudden. I had been away for the weekend and one of sons had, uh, the only one that was at home for the weekend with his father had found his father passed away.
Speaker 2:Um, and I did not find out till I got home, you know, several hours later, probably halfway through the day, and when I got that phone call, it literally altered my world completely. Like it, getting that news and that phone call was just like a bomb going off, you know, and there's shrapnel and pieces everywhere and I found myself trying to, you know, continue being a mother and doing my daily duties as a mother, but also trying to pick up all these pieces of this bomb that just went off in our faces and losing my husband and my children losing their fathers. So I wanted to write about that. It was just very traumatic.
Speaker 2:Like I said, it put me in a very, very dark place where I woke up every day kind of questioning like why did I wake up? You know, I I didn't really want to wake up to that reality. So it was quite a battle to deal with that reality and, and you know, literally crawl through it and try to get yourself to a point where you see light again, you know, and get to that point where you wake up and you feel blessed that you woke up and you look forward to the day of day ahead, because when I first got that phone call I was not in that place. I did not want to wake up and continue on with life after that news. So you know, I still had five beautiful children and they gave me strength every day.
Speaker 2:Um, so is that what really gave you the, the uh coping mechanisms was your children yeah, it was my children because, like, if, if I was to be gone too, then you know who's going to look after them and where are they going to be and who's going to love them and guide them. And and I think every parent, before they leave this world, want to make sure and know that their children and their family is fine, you know, to put them at ease. So that's a big source of my strength and why I get up every day and do what I do. But I'm also, you know, I've walked through the fire. I know a lot of people when they go through traumatic situations. You know we all have different ways to deal with things and and some people will block it, they try to forget it, avoid it. Honestly, the only way to get through anything you've gone through is you have to face it head on. You have to walk through the fire, you have to feel the pain to get through it and rise above.
Speaker 1:You know I've got I think you know we've got a group of Kenyan ladies that we help out and one of the things that they say which just what you said triggered me was they say going through it, like they're going through it, and I think you know that's. What else are you going to do up then move through it to get to the other side?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you have to. There's no avoiding it. Um, I I was in counseling for for a period after I went through this. I put myself in counseling a couple of years later, you know cause. I just had a lot of things that I needed help sorting out emotionally and mentally, and my counselor had put it this way it's like if you try to avoid it or block it, it's like trying to hold a beach ball underwater and it's going to keep popping up in different places.
Speaker 2:I don't know if you've ever tried to actually hold a beach ball underwater, but it rolls and pops up and and that's how it is. You know, with dealing with problems and trauma, you have to deal with it. There's no putting it away or tucking it somewhere and not deal with it.
Speaker 1:It it just it, it just it happens, it just, yeah, it bubbles up. Oh, let me ask you, catherine, um, were there any? Like, what strategies did you use, uh, to to bring yourself to a place where you know you felt that you could carry on and carry on with life? Like, what strategies did you use?
Speaker 2:Well, thank goodness I've been. You know I have a good support system. I have a big family, very loving children, loving kind neighbors. As far as strategies, well, the thing that first gave me the push to kind of continue on and find the light again is just acts of kindness, like small acts of kindness that make the world of difference. I had lovely neighbors that cooked food for my family and I, you know, for a long time after my husband had passed neighbors checking up you know different things like that, so it just really renewed my faith in humanity and warm my heart.
Speaker 2:As far as strategies, I think when you're down in the dumps and dealing with different things and down vibrational, you know your vibrations are down, just in general, we have to go back to the basics, right? So you have to make sure you know you get up and shower and get dressed, even if you're going nowhere, and you know doing the simple things of self care, you know, while you're going through it during that rough period. But it also helps to talk about things and a lot of us tend to keep things inside or, you know, like me, I'm usually a very personal, private person, but opening up and writing has been very healing and therapeutic. The impact of my story and the feedback that I've gotten from people just from sharing it yeah, it really makes me feel like I went. I've gone through what I've gone through. It's made me stronger and now I can use that to help other people.
Speaker 1:And absolutely. And I and I also really loved what you were saying about your neighbors and small acts of kindness, and I think not everybody is even willing to accept small acts of kindness and I think it's a beautiful. When you were talking about it, I thought how beautiful that, even in your immense pain, you opened up and you allowed people to come and care for you. And I think not all of us are willing to do that and I think you know sometimes we especially when we have kids and stuff sometimes we think we need to be so strong and so when others are offering their assistance, sometimes we don't take it. But I think that's it. I love it, I do. I think that opening up your heart and just allowing people to care for you because you needed to be cared for at that time, I think that that was really beautiful. Again, I think that not everyone can certainly open up and allow that to come in.
Speaker 2:I do agree with you on that. I think, you know, in general society, a lot of people are more and more disconnected and more and more closed. We are all human beings, we are all the same, you know, um, and as human beings we're meant to feel and we're meant to connect, and we live in a very disconnected society, um, you know, and people can be stubborn too, but I think all of us in a way need to learn to ask for help when we need it at times and reach out, and we also have to learn to accept that help and being in a world that, in general, can be very cold and closed and, you know, people just keep moving and not a lot of care when you find human beings and connections that do care to check on you and do care to see if you're okay and help you, that you should accept that with open arms, and I accepted it with such gratitude that really made a difference.
Speaker 2:It helped me get through what I needed to get through to be where I am today so with that then.
Speaker 1:Then, catherine, if someone's listening to us today and they have a family member that's grieving, how can they help? What could they do to support that family member, or good friend or neighbor, even? What can they do to support what things could they do?
Speaker 2:You know, I think that's a really good question. I, I, I know we've all been in a situation where, you know, we we've dealt with loss in one way or another. But then when you see a friend or someone else deal with loss, everyone gets in that awkward position where they don't know what to say and they don't know what to do. Um, show you care in any way you can. That makes a difference. Check in on those people, you know, even if they got the doors locked and the curtains closed, bang on their door, check on them, you know, let them know that you love them.
Speaker 2:Just so many little things that make a world of difference. Like you know, even with my neighbors that were bringing food, it just made such a huge difference because I was in a state where, you know, my mind was full of all of this sadness and trauma and the last thing I'm thinking is waking up and cooking or making myself something to eat. So all these little things are huge things to help someone feel supported and feel loved and cared for. And I think if they have those types of supports around and, you know, if you haven't heard from the person, pick up the call like a friend or a family can pick up a phone and call them, check on them, go to their door, you know, push them to come out.
Speaker 2:Uh, there was one point when I was in my depression that my girlfriends came. They knocked on my door and they literally told me pack a bag, right now we're going camping. And um, that was wild because I had been a hermit at home, fighting out in my house, antisocial, and it really made a world of difference. I think that trip that they kind of kidnapped me, quote unquote, and took me camping, was one of the first times I even cracked a smile after the loss of my husband, after the loss of my husband. So, you know, like I said, I know it's awkward, but all those little things can make a difference, you know, for friends and family. If they know anyone dealing with grief and loss, just don't leave them alone. You know, check on them, call them, bring them a cooked meal, you know.
Speaker 1:Catherine, I'd like to ask you about your son. You know, Catherine, I'd like to ask you about your son, your son who found your husband when your husband had passed away. How old was your son at that age 16. Oh and so how's he doing? How did, how did he cope with all of this?
Speaker 2:You know, like I know, children need their parents from young up to old. But I think you know, especially for a young man to be a teenager, in those years they really need their father, you know, just to show them and guide them from a man's perspective. So he was right at that age where you know he needed his father more than anything and he lost him. That, how it affected him and what he went through really has ripped me apart. And it's going on 10 years since my husband passed away and my son, thank God, is doing much, much, much, much better, but he does still deal with effects of that trauma After he found his father dead.
Speaker 2:That's actually the first time that I really became familiar with like PTSD and post traumatic stress disorder and you know the signs of it and how to deal with it and you know it's been a learning experience. But it's been quite a hard road because I I it affected my son on so many levels. You know where he acted out of aggression or he had broke down at my feet. You know just bawling and wanting his father back and seeing your child especially go through that kind of inner pain and not being able to really make it better for them is the worst feeling in the world.
Speaker 1:And another added stress on your shoulders during a time when you're already immensely under stress and pressure.
Speaker 2:He's come a long way though. Like I mean, we talk about that day and we talk about his father, and if you get to a point where you can talk about it and you know, not break down, then I think you're doing a really good job on the healing journey. He's a beautiful little girl now that's a year old, and he's an amazing father oh, beautiful. Honestly, I feel so blessed. Like all my kids, I must have done something right, because they've turned out to be amazing, caring, kind, giving human beings.
Speaker 1:Oh, that is wonderful. That's wonderful, yeah, and so you've definitely done something right. You should probably write a book and tell everybody what it is to do right.
Speaker 2:Make sure your kids grow up to be kind and, uh, gentle, human well, okay, I did a chapter in this book, so maybe I just need to work on a full book. There's a lot to tell.
Speaker 1:I have a lot of stories, yeah so how has your perspective on life changed since your loss of your husband?
Speaker 2:huh. Well, it's changed in a lot of ways on a lot of levels. Um, first thing, it changed my perspective on life big time. Um, all the little things that we tend to worry about and get caught up and get stressed, and everyone running the rat race, or material things, and all these different things well, that kind of went out the door, because now my perspective's changed, where none of those things really matter to us, you know, for the most part, the things that matter are spending time with family and friends, spending time with your loved ones, your children being there for them.
Speaker 2:To me, in my opinion, no job, no anything is worth you missing, like your children's school play or their hockey game. You know, those are the things that are important in life sitting down and having a cooked family meal together, you know. So my perspective has changed in that regard, and also the fact that you never, ever know what anyone is going through behind closed doors. Even some of the people out in public that may seem the happiest and smiling could be dealing with the darkest stuff. So I think we need to always be kind, whether it's lending a hand, being a kind human being, kind words. We just need to be kind to one another and kind to ourselves as well, in general, just in life.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, absolutely, and I agree, you know, since I started Women Like Me in 2019, and I look at people differently now. You know, before I'd go and you know, maybe I had a grumpy waitress or waiter, or you know the teller at the store was, you know, just, you could tell the negative energy, poor soul, Like what? I don't know what they're dealing with. Obviously it's. It's something you know, and so, and, and even people who let me tell you a really quick story. Sure, so years ago, I went to a, an event, and, and I ended up in a house with four other women, and those four other women I didn't know them, and and they didn't know each other, but we all got together because we were all going to this event together, and so, on my drive there, I get a phone call that two of my boys got into an altercation as brothers do. One called the police. My in-laws were upstairs. It was like, like I don't really need to deal with this right now. I'm like I was parked down the street from this house, so then, you know, I got to suck it up and in I go.
Speaker 1:Well, I found out during the three days that I was there that each one of us women had something that had happened, but they all put on happy faces. Had something that had happened, but they all put on happy faces. I thought I was the only one. I was, you know, trying to, okay, shake it off, get inside, keep my face. You know my smile.
Speaker 1:But one woman was having an issue with a family about, uh, uh, the 80th mother's birthday. Another, uh was having an issue with her husband because he thought she was just going to play where that's not what she was doing. Another one had a big issue with her 15-year-old daughter just before she left. And another woman who owned a cleaning business who left somebody in charge, decided to empty the bank account while she was gone and was unable to pay everybody. Now, I didn't know any of this. Walking into the house, I thought I was, you know, like, thinking, you know, oh, I don't want them to know about my, my, my hiccup in life, as I was parked down the street trying to deal with what was going on in my house.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:One of them had something you know and it just really woke me up to go. We all like we never know what's going on with someone we never know. So just be kind, be you know, be kind and gentle and and smile, even though somebody's got like a you know grumpy look on their face or something. That's my story.
Speaker 2:The other thing too, that I've learned a lot and I know you hear it but like we cannot control what comes our way in life we cannot control so many circumstances in life but we can control how we deal with it. We can control how we look at the situation and our mindset, and that can make the world of difference. It can be the most horrific situation horrific situation but your mindset and your attitude is what is going to kind of dictate or direct the outcome. You know we can let everything get to us and we complicate things as human beings. Life is simple and it should be simple. You know we complicate things, so we need to learn to take a deep breath, have faith that everything is going to be all right and then prioritize what we need to do first and just take one step at a time and deal with what we have to deal with and we have a more positive mindset and attitude going through a horrible situation. It's really going to make it that much better, for sure.
Speaker 1:Catherine, you mentioned something when we were planning to do our podcast and you mentioned that you used pain as your source of power. Can you explain that to us a little bit?
Speaker 2:So when we get revved up as human beings with different emotions, it's a source of energy. Um, you know, like, when people get angry too, right, it's just like the pain, um, and then, instead of like holding it inside, we have to do something with it, right? So, like, you go through all these different emotions when you lose someone. You know guilt and blame, and it's just a real roller coaster ride. But if you take all of that and look at it as a type of energy source to push you and drive you to something, right, so like, for an example, if something happens in life and it gets you really kind of irked and angry and upset under your skin, instead of screaming or yelling or pulling hair or fighting with people, you could use that source to drive you to maybe make change of something that upset you.
Speaker 2:Or, you know, what I would do at times too, is I'll go running and jogging because I need to burn all of that energy and get it out me, you know. Or go to the gym and punch a punching bag. It's like I'm taking that negative which seems to be negative energy and that pain and I'm using it as fuel to drive, you know, to make it's like fuel in a car to drive. You keep you going and you can. We do actually have control. You know to direct that pain and anger and these emotions. You know to turn it into a positive energy source, if that makes any sense.
Speaker 1:No, it does. It makes. It makes perfect sense because you can, you, because you know, some people let the pain just eat away at them and they're, and, and you know, they, them and they're unhappy all their lives. Other people, as you said, use the pain to go through it and then use that power, take the power from the pain and then to enhance their lives and to do better. And I think you're right, I think it's all about how we deal with things Absolutely, and whether we're going to let it, you know, beat us down or not. And you know, of course, some people's situations are a lot more traumatic than others. And, like you, had gone to counseling. So there's counseling available. There's, you know, all sorts of different ways to help ourselves. But, but I agree with you, I think we need to use our pain as more of a positive rather than that negative.
Speaker 2:I know when people are going through it. Sometimes it's hard to see. You know, over the hill right it's hard to see what's going to happen next. But if we keep things inside and it just simmers, it really does eat you up from the inside out. You know, you do have to go through it and, honestly, if you allow yourself to feel it and go through it, it's like a wound, like a physical wound, you know, and then it heals and, yes, you have the scarring, but your skin's back together, strong again, right. So that pain like even though we may not see it in the long run, looking back, like where I am now looking back it has made me all the more stronger. Yes, really made me stronger as a person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, absolutely. And I love that Because I also look back, because I don't want to forget where I was, because I'm very happy, I love myself today and, and, and all of that made me who I am. All that good stuff and bad stuff, pain and not pain at all, made me who I am today, and and I quite like myself. So you know it's, um, I agree, I think that I think you know it's. I agree, I think that I think you know some people never want to look back at it and that's okay, and if that's how they deal with it, that's absolutely fine. But I do believe that, looking back, once you've come out of it and you're actually progressing in your life, it's good to look back. It gives you a nice, clear picture of the strength and the courage and the resilience that you have.
Speaker 2:I agree with you completely and you know I'm like you, julie. I look back, I analyze, I reflect on my life, I analyze, I reflect on my life. But you know, I'm sure we all sit here and we're like you know, look back and know I could change this, or if only I could go back in time. But you know what I'm kind of past, that Like I'm good and bad. I am glad that I've gone through the journey I've gone through, because it wouldn't make me the person I am today. Like you said, I wouldn't have the wisdom and the strength I have today. It's molded me who I am.
Speaker 2:And again, perspective too. Right, I'm at a point where I can look back, you know, at this situation in my life and losing my husband, and I don't break down all the time like I did and I can look back and have a bittersweet smile on my face because I, my perspective, has changed. So, you know, instead of looking at it like I've lost him, I look at it like, you know, I'm grateful that I had that time with him in my life, because there's so many people that don't find that connection or that love, and I have five beautiful children and nine beautiful grandchildren to show for it. So you know I look back at it differently, where, you know, my heart's warmed from the memories and, yeah, everything we go through in life, you know, even I think all the hardships we go through really mold us and give us character and strength and wisdom.
Speaker 1:I agree, yeah, so, catherine, what would you? Where's your life going? So where are you going? So that's a good question.
Speaker 2:Julie, because I've kind of asked myself that question so many times, especially now that my youngest son well, the one that found his father is 26. Now my youngest son is 25. So they're all grown, they've all left the nest and, you know, I kind of dipped back down with some struggles because I'm like an empty nester and I'm like, for many, many, many years I identified as a wife, yes, and a mother, yes, and I lost my husband and now my kids are grown and moved out and, yes, I'm still their mother but, like, my daily duties aren't there as a mother. So, you know, I sat there and I'm like, where am I going? What am I doing with my life? What is my purpose? Do I even have a purpose? Is my job already done? You know, like, why am I here? And I love those questions, you know.
Speaker 2:I think it's questions a lot of us ask ourselves and still trying to figure out our lives as we go through it and still trying to figure out our lives as we go through it. But, you know, I think this book is a big thing and I've always been writing for a long, long time and the fact that I have this platform to share it and, like I said, the response I've had really makes me feel like maybe that's my purpose. You know, my purpose is to show and guide others, or maybe just share my stories, to help others open up and share their stories and go through what they need to go through. So I don't know, we'll see where life takes us. I'm not worried about tomorrow. I know that has changed since I've gone through this. I just try to stay present in the moment today and worry about one thing at a time and try to enjoy every moment that I can. And when I wake up tomorrow, I will deal with tomorrow.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, I love it, love it, love it, love it, and I would love for you to continue writing. I think that you're an extremely good writer. I I really enjoyed your story and and you should continue if you, if you feel the calling. I do believe that there is there's. You know, a lot of my ladies say if I can help just one, if I could help just one person and you, we will never know how many people we have. We will never know who listens to this podcast to share. You know some feedback or you know how they felt when they were reading the story as well. So we never know, but I do know from your story and from speaking with you that you have a lot of wisdom that you can share with other women in the world and and we need to be there to help uplift each other. So I personally hope you continue, catherine. I think you've got a lot of goodness to share out there and and now that you're an empty nester, I'm holding you back, lady.
Speaker 2:I know, but the house is so quiet. It's quite the adjustment, but I guess that my children are filling it with grandchildren now. So I look forward to and you know, I really wake up looking forward to every day now and and that's a good thing I've come a long way.
Speaker 1:Well, catherine, we're going to sign off, and is there anything at all that you would like to share with our listeners before we say goodbye?
Speaker 2:You know, it's just one little thing and when I was going through my grief years ago I came across it was actually a stranger at a grocery store, an older woman, and she said something to me and I'm going to leave the listeners with this and it just kind of hit so hard. We all need to learn how to be our own best friend and kind to ourselves. Best friend and kind to ourselves. Minds can be quite a place to be lost in. So if I can leave the viewers with that, that we all need to learn how to be our own best friend and talk kindly, like self-talk to ourselves.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely. That's excellent, Excellent advice out there. We all need to be kinder to ourselves, for sure, sometimes, and we need to put ourselves first because if we're, you know, even like with you, you have five children, if you allowed yourself to crash and burn and you know what's going to happen to those kids, what's going to happen to that poor son of yours, you know so. So you took care of yourself, which which allowed you to go and take care of everybody else. So, thank you, catherine, thank you for that advice.
Speaker 1:Well, everyone, that is the end of our beautiful chat with the dear Catherine Chapman King. And again, her story is in the book transforming pain into wisdom and love. If you would like to read it, I'm going to put a link in the description to the book. So, if you wanted to purchase the book and have a listen or have I'm sorry, have a read of Catherine's story, you'll be able to do that. Well, thank you so much, catherine, for agreeing to do this, and I hope I get to read lots more from you. Thank you for having me, julie. You're welcome. Take care, take care.